lol 5x dm4, jeez ;//

typical euro dm4 whores

gg lame qh rules
most boring finals ever (not speaking about the wtf pairings in WB)

yeh agreed worse lan ever. qw really is over i think now.


for the first time ever i am starting to find games boring win or loose. lost intrest in it totally.

agree with everyone. Total lost of interest and
gay pairings after group games. Crew made big mistake.

I would like to see the dm2-6 maps barred from tournies now. Less played maps such as Aerowalk, Ztndm3 and Skull would be much more interesting to watch as the dm maps have been played into the ground. More and more people are going to start losing interest seeing these dated maps being played again and again. I also write this as an encouragement to mappers to make some wicked new maps for us to play. I think Skull deserves a lot of attention for ideas as it looks very nice and it offers a lot of variation in game play strat.

best dm4 matchs ever....

ROX !!!

serox, "worst lan ever"?

are you stupid or something? it was the greatest lan ever, the toal opposite!

see the 2nd dm4 demo, totally amazing skills by griffin. And btw, they could have played other maps, but they both agreed on dm4, so don't blame the lan!

really nice play, total ownage

people, calm down... I watch dm4 demos since 1997 and still don't find them boring... but maybe it's just me...

I don't think that people who didn't even visit the lan should say that it sucked. Sure, it was the most boring QH-LAN 1on1 finals ever to watch, but the lan is not only about that - it's about meeting other people and having fun. Overall this was really a good QH-LAN, crew did a great job as always.

yes 2cnd dm4 is incredibly..

there are a frag... when griffin 14 health... he seems run away and back and frag reppie...

wow...

all qizmo crew scream that moment...

remember that?

i think was the most amazing finals...

i saw all finals and never remember most adrenaline that this ....

reppie v dag was ok..cos each player was ACTUALLY trying to win.........but most players dont care anymore and it showed at this qhlan, nearly all the games i saw were very predictable, its so friendly and everyone knows each other that its become terrible for competitive play. Theres no money and theres very very few emerging good players...sucks

aegd serox

i think it was a very nice lan had alot fun watching games thru qizmo.

i think it was the most skill full qw lan i have seeing alot talent fix is an animal in 4v4's.

the lan might have been fun live, but i would have rather been in the pub having a beer than watching smelly nerds play games and say 'lol'


as for the demos i saw, i found the games boring. i have seen better demos, better finals.

they both picked dm4 cos it is strongest map for both.


new maps would be more fun, new players even more fun.

Dont judge the hole qhlan from the 1on1 final.
I think the 4on4 tournament had the best team's ever at qhlan. It was an amazing 4on4 compo, LA, SR, FS, GTG, CMF. Fix was so great!!

People keep whining over CS style in quake? Now that you have "pure" action (1on1 finals). Why do you keep whining over that?

I like it when i comes to CS-style (in compo)... it's the whole excitment in it, comptetition etc. It becomes more like chess, you wait out your opponent.

Well, we all have a few things to complain about... For example, I personally would've liked to see some ParadokS demos. I love watching him play. Another person I enjoy watching is also from SR, XalibuR, but I think he wasn't even in the LAN.. Also it'd have been pretty cool to have Milton in the 1on1. There I mentioned 3 people who play NICELY and with style.. And we might have seen a bit more of other maps than dm4 (Yeah, I agree about that, too many games were played in it, heh).

But anyways, the demos are good, and the competition was great.. reppie, griffin, dag, and all others... very skilled. Who said QW is dead? I highly doubt that.

Just wanted to make it public that posters 4,5,6 have brain palsy and are cretins. :)

It seems to me as if it is fashionable to mock Dag at every opportunity.
I must really say, despite his tactics (or maybe because of them), Dag demos are the ONLY demos I really enjoy watching. By the simple fact that he
plays as if he really wants to win.
And that is what competition should be all about.

If the players involved don`t care if they win or loose, the line between skill and randomness gets blurred and we watch the demo for esthetical reasons only. Because the game has no nerve.

I must admit, that I, too, love to watch a frag beautifully done every now and then. But eventually those frags "nicely done" drown in the ocean of "quake orgasms". And you feel OVERSTIMULATED. Like a PIG BATHING IN LUXURY!
Like a decadent roman senator who`s only interest is "when to eat next".

So, I really miss those tight matches where all the players involved try to give their best, even if that means using tactics. (Or, cs, as most refer to it as) And Dag, I`m afraid, is the only one left of his kind.
I mean, where is the sportmanship in saying "gl/hf" before a match, all the while during the match one tries to be as mobile as possible to prevent oneself from being labeled "lame". (Or something worse!)

I hope to see many tight QW demos in the future, though I fear the time of QW is diminishing...

I think Dag must have a tight game for him to of won so many matches. If he lost the +rj script and learned the art of finess I think he'd be a great player. As it stands I'm glad you enjoy watching him play but I'd much rather watch the likes of Def, Paradox, Reload, Griffin etc etc than to see CS style tactics and +rj scripts. Nothing against Dag though, as I mentioned already, finess + manual rj and we'd have an admiral player both fully skilled and a ton of fun to watch play. If Winning was "everything" then break out the cheats and pull every lame possible tactic from the book and GG.

Examples of lamer tactics:

Leading Tactics: Players who realize their opponent is a tough match who continually run from head to head combat and attempt to lead the opponent into spam traps. Constantly on the run forever lame.

Hiding Tactics: Players who start off with a bang but know it's not to last or have a score advantage and hide/camp to avoid being fragged waiting for the time to run out.

Type Tactics: Players who ask questions after being killed so they can quickly powerup while their opponent replies

Talking Smack Tactics: Players who talk smack and spam messages to confuse and anger their opponent to try and gain a game advantage

Scripts Tactics: Players who use scripts to gain advantage over those who don't use scripts.

Jackal Tactics: Players who wait until their opponent is off their game to challenge a duel. Some players refuse to play someone until they notice that person is tired or not playing well or suffering from lag, and then suddenly they are all up for a game.

Whine Tactics: "Feel sorry for me because I'm at a disadvantage or pretending to be so stop everything and stop fragging me so hard". Players who whine hard to downplay the score or losing and/or simply to distract their opponent.

Obviously this is a "short list" and many more lamer tactics could be added, but you've all seen and heard it before. This is what I meant by "lamer tactics" in my last message.

In any great sportsevent, you would rather want to see the finals where you either win or get nothing. And get the feeling of having accomplished something. The message I`m trying to convey, is that when players disregard tactics and don`t concentrate on winning, you will not feel that the players are playing at their maximum level. Only in a tight competition, when there is something at stake, will you see players giving their best performances. Because it counts!

That is what I miss. Because when you see Griffin vs. Reppie in game #45545554E10, you realize that these players are holding something back. The level of adrenaline is almost down to zero, and it doesn`t matter if you die a couple of times.
I recognize that some fun may be extractet from this, however, as I said earlier, it is like wathing a friendly football match between Brazil and Argentina over and over again. You know the best players are out there, but you aren`t convinced they`re pushing themselves to the limits because they`re only there to entertain the audience. I want to see hungry gladiators willing to sacrifice their own blood, like in Oliver Stone`s "Any given sunday". That`s the kindof stuff I`m talking about.

However, I would like to point out that you have a couple of good ponts regarding "lame tactics", as you so fittingly put it.
But, as in all games, not everything can be controlled. If someone chooses to hide, it`s his decision. However, rude remarks should be avoided, but like everywhere one should not conceal oneself behind a mask of hipocricy.

i think it was good that someone broke the evil circle with dag/grf in final... tho i agree that 5*dm4 sucked :|

in competition i prefer clever games, rather than stupid jump out use aim and hope for the right spawn games.....dag is good to watch because he plays like he wants to win, griffin just uses his amazing skill, but never seems to want to win, i just can't watch his demos.

Fun games are one thing, competition games are another. If dag gets 1 kill on dm4 and hides in mega for the rest of the game, that is perfectly fine in competition, he doesnt give a shit if some nerds think oh lol cs style, it wins him the game and thats what matters.

If big money was on the line, you'd see alot more of that, i prefer tension in a game rather than flair. If i want stylish attacking play i just watch the fun games.

> Fun games are one thing, competition games are another. If dag gets 1 kill on dm4 and hides in mega for the rest of the game, that is perfectly fine in competition, he doesnt give a shit if some nerds think oh lol cs style, it wins him the game and thats what matters.

you are what's wrong with the qwscene.

maybe if it wasn't so dead there'd be some prizes

Sorry to disappoint ya'll, but QW will never be 100% dead... Never. =)

what

> griffin just uses his amazing skill,
> but never seems to want to win

Lol, just watch the game that mattered, the 5th dm4 and think again. Griffin played like there was 2 ferraris at stake. Good display of why dm4 sucks if it's not played with "+forward".

i think reppie and grffn play with a very entertaining style; it is more risky style, of course. But when it works, it is magical to watch. I admire the risk these players make. That said, if a guy plays an effective, slower 'defensive' style i don't mind. But i don't think it is a sign of desiring a prize or of possessing a higher skill set; has qw ever been about playing for the money? Not as far as I can remember. Both styles have their place in higher level competition and they always have throughout qw's duelling history. If you doubt me, then check out kane vs columbo on dm4 during the tgi....the shafting in mh room rush by columbo is a "how-to" on the +forward technique. the patience of lakerman is a sign of good defensive tactics...as seen in the first 4 minutes of mh room tension in the dm4 final versus kane. But was any of this tourney played for the sake of the money? I think it was about strength and honour...that's what qw has been about afaik.

The wakness of your argument is that you`re not finding evidence to support your arguments, and as it has no fundation to rest itself upon it collapses into the seemingly infinit sea of "lols" and "lames".

You state that qw is about strength and honour.
Well, pardon me, but I don`t see any strength/honour in the frequent use of "gls" and "hfs". Where is the sportmanship in giving away matches to prevent oneself from being labeled "lame"? Why shouldn`t players be allowed to play their best without having to justify their tactics after every ten minutes of 1on1-action?
The message I`m trying to convey is that there is a fear of playing at 100% when that does not necassarily involve a constant use of +forward.
I`m so tired of those infantile, envious blokes out there who can`t acknowledge the fact that tactic is imperative to play QW at its highest level.
I recognize that money has never been a big issue. (except of course when Tresh won a car and a couple of other insignificant) Do you see what I`m getting at? I realize that there is nowhere to get that kind of money these days.
But at least people could have enough decency to let players like Dag decide how they wish to fight. I`m tired of those "press-the-+forward-button-constantly-so-that-nobody-thinks-you-are-a-lame-n00b"-dmm4 matches with nothing at stake.

I think the general feeling on Dags, is using defensive tactics against formidable opponents proves he's out skilled going head to head. Use of FRJ scripts also is indicative of still needing a crutch to lean on because he hasn't truly mastered his game.
Dags reminds me of so many players who have the ability to even win against top notch players on any given map maybe the first 2 or 3 games. But any successive games after the 3rd and a top player will have his way with him. I could be wrong on that but I'd like to see Dags go up against any reputable player 5 or more successive games on a single map and see who winds up winning after game 3.
Don't get me wrong I think highly of Dags and his accomplishments, and I will enjoy seeing him develop his offensive game and manual rj's in the future.

to the anonymous 80.202.56.24:

"The wakness of your argument is that you`re not finding evidence to support your arguments"

i did cite games in the past to try to prove my point...did you?

"You state that qw is about strength and honour.
Well, pardon me, but I don`t see any strength/honour in the frequent use of "gls" and "hfs". Where is the sportmanship in giving away matches to prevent oneself from being labeled "lame"?

I haven't heard of this occurring in major qw tournies...cite games where it has.

"Why shouldn`t players be allowed to play their best without having to justify their tactics after every ten minutes of 1on1-action?"

I never said otherwise, you must be confusing me with a someone else:/

my reply above^^^

dm4 and dm2 are not very good maps if u play in very competitive way. In dm4 camping is too effective and in dm2 hiding is too effective.
I think it is good thing that quake isn't very competitive. After all this is just a game.
It's stupid that people think that qw should be like spectator sport.

Xhrl, I`m sorry, I was mostly trying to upset my brother with my snobbish use of language.

But no, even if you haven`t heard of this behaviour, I see it often when I download demos,
even if it isn`t necassarily said directly.
(Like the constant spamming of cs, the mocking of "defensive" players etc.)

As to my lack of examples, I`m speaking in general, and I think that there`s plenty of evidence in most recent demos nowadays.

Sorry for my disrespectful tone, I had just finished looking over the recent QHLAN6 demos, and I felt as much nerve in some of them as in a dead pancake! :)

sorry, the last post was not by xhrl, but by anonymous

Archvile, I stopped going to Lan-partys because I don`t feel like there is any point in participating in a competition anymore.
That`s what bothers me!

That is why QW is dying! (In my opnion, but if you give it some thought, I`m utterly convinced you will at some point reach the same conclusion)

"I think the general feeling on Dags, is using defensive tactics against formidable opponents proves he's out skilled going head to head. Use of FRJ scripts also is indicative of still needing a crutch to lean on because he hasn't truly mastered his game.
Dags reminds me of so many players who have the ability to even win against top notch players on any given map maybe the first 2 or 3 games. But any successive games after the 3rd and a top player will have his way with him. I could be wrong on that but I'd like to see Dags go up against any reputable player 5 or more successive games on a single map and see who winds up winning after game 3.
Don't get me wrong I think highly of Dags and his accomplishments, and I will enjoy seeing him develop his offensive game and manual rj's in the future."

It's hard for most people to understand dag but if you've seen him throughout his QW playing you'd understand exactly why dag plays the way he does.

Your first point about using defensive tactics because he is outskilled can be answered quite easily and it's because the game play matters the most in deciding who wins or loses. It doesn't matter how good you can be as an offensive player, if the game play goes against you then you will lose 100% of the time vs a tactical player.

By game play I mean the duration of the game, deaths, frags, player spawns, ammo and armor respawn timings, player positioning, etc. Players like dag have played so much they know exactly how to manage all of the above and more to get the win regardless.

Regarding the FRJ, couldn't it be that in order to gain movement perfection or as close as is possible within the physics, the frj is the most obvious choice to use.

I gotta go I'll continue later.

Dag is probably one of the very few players who has actually mastered qw as a competitive sport and anyone who says that he should learn to do manual rj's obviously haven't seen much of Dag as a player. He uses rj-scripts because they're 100% accurate and (suprise everyone) because they ARE ALLOWED. So until a tourney bans the use of scripts please just keep the skill rethoric to yourselves.

I'm amazed that people still think 40+ frag blowouts against newbie players where the ownz0r player uses l33t manual jumps and wicked prediction shots show "skill" - but when another player plays "the game" and beats the ownz0r player by playing smart and not making any mistakes - then there's no skill at all and just "CS". This shows how little understanding there is in the "middle-layers" of the qw-community as to what extent high-level gaming actually is a mental sport.

If quakeworld-competitions involved money other players would play more competitive (but I still think, in the end, Dag would be laughing all the way to the bank).

"I think the general feeling on Dags, is using defensive tactics against formidable opponents proves he's out skilled going head to head. Use of FRJ scripts also is indicative of still needing a crutch to lean on because he hasn't truly mastered his game.
Dags reminds me of so many players who have the ability to even win against top notch players on any given map maybe the first 2 or 3 games. But any successive games after the 3rd and a top player will have his way with him. I could be wrong on that but .
Don't get me wrong I think highly of Dags and his accomplishments, and I will enjoy seeing him develop his offensive game and manual rj's in the future." (c) -insolent

This has to be the most moronic post EVER on chtv. Who are YOU to talk about "developing his offensive game" and "I'd like to see Dag go up against any reputable player 5 or more successive games on a single map and see who winds up winning after game 3." If im not mistaken he has been one of the top 2ish qw players for like 3 years or so... you have about 12 POSTS on chtv and all of a sudden your the authority on "lamer tactics" and "offensive game."

Search for dag demos, i'll bet 90% of them he wins by rape perportions. Maybe those well quench your need for +forward games and the lans could have some tension.

"develope his offensive game" hah.

What a load of bullshit. All of it. It's very simple guys; different people have different playstyles. Where's the "This is how you play competitive QW" manual? Oh, it doesn't exist? The winner takes it all, including the right to play as he sees fit to win.

Arguing about which playstyle you like to spec more is just stupid, because different people prefer different things. That's how it's always been, and that's how it'll always be.

Oh, and you're wrong about the importance of the fifth game. The games were played best of three, but since griffin came from the loosers bracket he had to beat reppie in two game series whereas reppie only had to win one. Griffin won the first 2-1 and the second 2-0.

The second and third game were the only "matchball" games for reppie; never the fourth or fifth. Griffin could've lost either one of those and still won by winning the final (and sixth) game. In any case, after watching the five demos in sequence, you'll see that after loosing the first game he plays alot more defensively and keeps RA in his favor as much as possible.

And that's the end of that chapter.




btw somewhere someone said "I think the general feeling on Dags, is using defensive tactics against formidable opponents proves he's out skilled going head to head."

HOW CAN HE WIN IF HE IS OUT SKILLED!
(skill doesn't just constitute aim)