Arena (POVDMM4)
lithium
Rating: 0.0 (0 votes)
3 minutes, Deathmatch 4
ping pl frags name Deaths
12 0 155 lithium 21
Thursday 13 Apr 2006, 04:38
#1:
oneshotflinch
Nice. This is looking tight, I'm expecting there to be some top-notch scores in the next shaft tourny ;>>
Thursday 13 Apr 2006, 09:28
#2:
razor
i watched one of these before and this is probably the same, would be funnier if the bots strafed a little more and a little more unpredictable, cause its more like learning some kind of system here
Thursday 13 Apr 2006, 13:02
#3:
Anonymous
it would be even more fun to see good shafting against other good players. bots are the zzz
Thursday 13 Apr 2006, 13:52
#4:
oneshotflinch
Yeah, I agree. The thing that makes "bot" competitions so retarded is you can cheat so easily undetected (100% client side) and in so many different ways. What might work is having as many servers possible setup a server/port specifically for this competition and the ping could somehow be factored into the score. Minping could be acceptable. For instance if you score the same with 20 ping and 40 ping then you could raise your ping and submit that score and score a bit higher.

Or instead of playing bots play against real players but enforce minping as a part of the rules.
Thursday 13 Apr 2006, 13:55
#5:
oneshotflinch
... The problem with minping is we all know it's fucked up, so it would be nice if someone could work on fixing it. Alternatively to minping players could reroute their connections through proxy.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 15:10
#6:
phil
yeah a couple of people tried cheating "undetected" and got caught quite quickly :)

ok i have code done for the tourney, should be online soon
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 15:13
#7:
phil
its an interesting idea to have the tourney vs other people instead. but a lot of people cant even break 30-35% vs bots, and I actually notice that it's harder for me to get a good lg% vs the skill 10 bots rather than vs most humans

and I cant expect everyone to be able to compete in this tourney vs the same caliber of players. kovaak for example will not be able to submit a low ping demo vs a good swedish player, while most swedes will be able to do this, and vice-versa
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 16:42
#8:
pg
My problem is the reverse phil. I can get like 40-50% LG vs bots(generally average 40-45% with 13ms), but I don't think I've gotten that high once yet vs people.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 17:41
#9:
Anonymous
You never played Traxler when you were lpb.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 18:34
#10:
oneshotflinch
#7, #8:
Are we talking 3 min, povdmm4, shaft only, while trying to get as high score possible VS humans? Because it's easy to get high shaft eff % vs humans. All you have to do is *only* use shaft when you know it will hit or lock (usually direct line of fire), otherwise use RL or if shaft only, don't fire and reposition until you know you'll hit or lock.

With 90 ping, I managed to get 50+% eff against a relatively decent pov player. It's not that hard.

The challenge is not about getting high eff, but getting high damage count and high eff. This is why the math calculation in the ibc challenge worked out so well.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 18:49
#11:
oneshotflinch
phil:

If you were to setup a player vs player shaft tourny, the only way I could see this working is if it was a competition like any other. Each country enrolled into the competition would play only players in their respective countries. Pov matches could be setup best of 3 or something. To make it more of an event, instead of having 3 minute matches you could make it 5 or 10. You'd have winners/losers brackets and etc.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 18:51
#12:
oneshotflinch
.. Also, to make it more interesting, instead of limiting the map to pov, players could pick other dmm4 maps including endif :D
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 18:53
#13:
oneshotflinch
Sorry not endif.. I meant "end"
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 18:59
#14:
oneshotflinch
phil:
On the matter of cheating, the kind of cheating I'm talking about is making changes to the client. I'm guessing as it stands there is code inside the ibc frogbot that queries the client for version, possibly crc values for client, models etc and then writes that out as binary code into the demo qwd. This may work well enough only if that binary code was encrypted :p
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 19:02
#15:
oneshotflinch
The problem with that is if you have a block of code inside the qwd file that's different from the rest of the data, then people could make a legitimate demo and copy the code from that demo into the hacked one, so you'd want to pepper that code through-out the demo file so it cannot be so easily identified.
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 20:24
#16:
Anonymous
http://quakeworld.us/phil/lgc/
Friday 14 Apr 2006, 20:25
#17:
phil
that was me hehe
Saturday 15 Apr 2006, 01:15
#18:
lithium
theres absolutely no way an lg vs lg tourney could be setup in na. the ping discrepency would be much too. would be cool though as there are alot of skilled lg'ers in na including myself, def, cholo, devious, kovaak and thump4... beyond that i dont see anyone else being able to keep up except mabye ziel.
Saturday 15 Apr 2006, 06:01
#19:
oneshotflinch
I was suggesting there to be minping or rerouting to even pings for the tourny. It sounds like you're contradicting yourself by saying there's a lot of skilled lg'ers in NA but only mentioning 6 and beyond that possibly 7 players. There's a lot of other players in NA (i'm not sure how active) that would be able to compete. Your list could easily be doubled if not trippled. Just off the top of my head Immy, Fiend, cyan, -1, slik, cloud9, bulldozer, anm, nyana, X, scarecrow, Wyte, Niomic, etc.
Saturday 15 Apr 2006, 07:25
#20:
oneshotflinch
... Many more players could take part as well if you have div 1 - 4.
Saturday 15 Apr 2006, 14:51
#21:
Hagge
stop having a conversation with urself oneshotflinch :(
Saturday 15 Apr 2006, 15:55
#22:
oneshotflinch
Haggzored ;<<
Wednesday 19 Apr 2006, 06:30
#23:
shaftmetwisted
#18

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
myself, def, cholo, devious, kovaak and thump4... beyond that i dont see anyone else being able to keep up except mabye ziel.

i know of a few more in NA, that would shaft the piss out you lith ;>
Wednesday 19 Apr 2006, 21:34
#24:
lithium
we'll you've never duelled me on low ping (unfortunatly, as i think they would be good games) so i dont see how you would know that... but feel free to beat my ibc score then =)
ps. dont be angry i forgot you, i know you can lg... its all that time away at sea <3
Thursday 20 Apr 2006, 02:56
#25:
oneshotflinch
Lithium, shafting against bots vs shafting against real players is quite a different thing. Your argument was against having a player vs player shaft tourny.

The real test of how well people can shaft against bots will be in the new season of LGC. New physics and hopefully some decent cheat detection. I'm looking forward to seeing how you and everyone else will score against the rest come Season 2 LGC ;>>
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