dm4 is lolist of them all but best of teh three. Ztndm3 is good too, ending is funny

ye, @ dm4 both players had been playing with big respect (maybe too much) but ending was nice.
aero was total 0wnage by mili, ztn was interesting, maybe little unlucky for ave in some moments, I should say like says def, aero and ztn was like 200/200 (nice control ra and mh by milton) vs 150/100 but still GG.

Isn't that the way to win these games? Just keep youself in better stuffs.

Avenger lost the game because of one scene on ztndm3. He let Miltion spawn and run away (looked as if he wanted to kill him in a 'cool' way), Milton took over control, even low on health and won the damn series. One precise rocket and the game would have been decided in Avenger's favour :(

i will back in LB :))

"far we have seen the best games on dm4, dm6, and aero... perhaps establishing them as TB3 of the duel world from now"

"from now"?

maybe from 1998?

Two outta three aint so bad.

Milton seemed pretty nervious at dm4, resulting in a pretty boring game with too much respect. Imo dm4 should be more about fun playing (see griffin), then ofcourse, what can one do about nerves? :) In the end, winning is the main goal. I didnt watch the other two demos, but i suppose they are about the same so... Well gg both of u, and keep on fraggin!

ave played ztn too agressive i guess. and he came back fragzoring 200/200 milton in a nice way. i havent thought this game would be so close =[
and dm4 was not so entertaining but also a very interesting watch - a game of avoiding mistakes :)

def-

This is exactly what I've been saying for a while now. QW would have some really good tournaments if the maps were dm4,dm6,aero. dm2 is not a proper 1v1 map if there's anything at stake and ztndm3 is questionable, although para seems to have a nice style on it. :D

There's another change I'd make. Change the timelimit to 15, which is what Q3 and UT2003 use. This would force people to be aggressive/positive for longer as it will be much more difficult to CS out leads gained during the first few minutes.

ye 15 min could be cool if it?s a equal game.. but if u play vs a newbie I think the newbie rather wants 10 min of spawnfragging ;) and about ztndm3... in q3 the mega is in the tunnel between lg and ya which would be much better.. and @ def's lolcomment.. dm2 is way better than dm6 which is the worst duel/2on2/4on4/ffa map ever made so plz stfu... dm2/dm4/aero as TB3 plz! and gg to milton very good played.. will be interesting to see how long avenger will go from loserbrackets now :]

hagge: dm2 is way2cs in official duels and you know it. You just say it rocks because you are good on it 8)

Yeh i need to agree with Gamer even though dm2 is my fav map. In tournament players want to win so badly they cs alot and in dm2 it effects in a score 0-0 for like almost all the match... dm4,dm6 and aero should be used for tournaments. Be

oh PLEASE, look at matches like hib vs reppie or magma's dm2 matches and then look at ztndm3 duelmania results and tell me which is more cs mmkay?

yep ultrav rules

Fuka makes me sad in pants :<

huhu..dm4 so boring cs shit, shame on you! ztndm3..ye too easy to control..aero was nice, a lot more action..

glad to see some really good duellers expressing what i have thought for a while. dm2 is a great 2v2 map and it is the FINNISH_4v4_map_of_maps:) ztndm3 is a very fine 2v2 map; but as a duel map it would a cruel map to be close yet down on in the last minute of play whether that be the 10th or 15th or whatever. so dm2 and ztndm3 are 'fun' duel maps, yes, but not structured at all for tournaments because they have control issues. what surprises me is that it has taken 7 years or so for qw players to realize that dm2 is really just a fun duel map and not one to be utilized in tournament play. It is interesting to note that Thresh didn't think dm2 was a very good map because, in his view, it allowed for too much 'hiding' and what he called 'spam-play'. Now i agree completely with mr.fong's assessment as reagrds duels on dm2; i even prefer e1m2 for duelling over dm2, as it has better balance. But that's a weird preference i admit, but my point is that, even though dm2 has been used as one of the big three duel maps, it has always been suspect as a duel map even in the minds of very good players.

The big3 of duelling are dm4, dm6 and aerowalk: they should be regarded as the_manly_man's duel maps. It is interesting to note that the aussie quakers have understood this important fact for a long time...and, no, i am not from downunder at all; the great white north, as the people of bushland misrepresent it, is my homeland.

btw, i want to see the hib vs reppie games...so put them up here on chtv on the slackers file server please:)

> It is interesting to note that the aussie quakers have understood this important fact for a long time...

Well, you're partially correct. I can't really speak for the AU scene but in my (demo-watching) experience, they tend to play a lot of dm2, and avoid dm6 like cancer. The big 3 in AU are dm2, dm4, and aero (to all actual Australians- feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong). I think they might be onto something over there..

But IMO it's not the maps that need to be changed, it's the players and their attitudes. Everybody's too serious. Take a look at a random game with mrlame and griffin--it's virtually guaranteed that there'll be more action in those 10 minutes than practically the whole of duelmania. QW lends itself perfectly to that style of play, but it isn't exactly prevalent. It's all povdmm4 and cscscs, hence the reason I've stopped following QW save in rare instances (watching people like insane, griffin, and para play). If you want get a 1 frag lead and spend all day camping mega/ra on dm2, wouldn't you be better off running counterstrike.exe? It's a fucking game, people play games to have FUN. </rant>

true :E

omg nate $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for president!

dm6 is a GREAT duel map. dm2 doesn't come even close.

Where is LocKtar? my favourit dm2 player! if ppl played like he does, we would have much funnier games! and dm2 owns when good players play it. There is no doubt about it DM2 is a great map!
anyone plz send me some new loktar demos! bye for now. //abnorm

I really can't understand how ppl like dm6 :{ we should do it like the aussies!

coz dm6 roxxinen best duel map ever B<

ye seems the aussies are the only clever ones, dm2 owns and if ppl camp there its not my fault hagge for president :| i've seen more cs on ztndm3 than on dm2! a lot more :|

"dm2 owns and if ppl camp there its not my fault"

It's not your fault, it's the map's fault because dm2 clearly rewards CS play. By your logic you could say that any map in the whole of Quake owns for 1on1. I mean, if both players were always prepared to attack, dm3 would be a good 1on1 map. Obviously however if the game had any importance, people would be straight into the RA as soon as they had a lead.

Here's another example: Remember QW at CPL? Fatality played Harlsom in one round. On both dm2 and dm4 he tried to CS. On dm4 he got raped. On dm2, however, he actually won the game. This says it all about dm2, really - a player with good aim and no real knowledge of QW can beat a proper QW player simply by CS-ing.

Maps should IMO be dm4, dm6, aerowalk. People can try and CS on all of these maps but there are ways of breaking them down - which isn't really the case on dm2.

"This says it all about dm2, really - a player with good aim and no real knowledge of QW can beat a proper QW player simply by CS-ing"

dm2 is qw knowledge. sure, it's a risky duel map, but both players have the same chances as on dm4 or dm6. ok, dm2 is less balanced and you can easily defend your lead or run into lolspawns but your mny can too and that doesn't mean you shoudnt play it. and what would be the next step? play only dmm4 on symetrical maps in order to make the game luck-independent? luck is a skill and i guess qw and its tournaments arent about winning itself but the way you're winning. just like griffin does it :)

TB 3 should be dm2 , dm6 and aerowalk
why do ppl like dm4 so much? it suXX sooo much :E
dm2 forever !

first of all nate got his quote wrong. or rather his quote right and the rest wrong... xhrl's top3 were dm4, dm6 and aerowalk, as are def's.. nate replaced dm6 with dm2 while keeping xhrl's quote...

anyhoo, dm2 is as exciting a map as any... the fact that it *has* been camped in the history, has taught many people how to camp *and decamp* it "correctly" giving to cs possibility only between equal players (dag/griffin)... fat vs harl wasnt shit, i dont think either player was playing seriously there, so harl losing to fat on dm2 cause of cs doesnt mean shit about dm2 as a map...

like someone said, its the players...

dm6 is my favorite map by far; if dm3 is tp perfection, dm6 is duel perfection... dm4 is dmm4 vs duel perfection; and dm2 is cs vs duel perfection... aero, if only people could make some decent 32-bit textures for it (it looks like someone puked all over the walls -- after eating a bag full of dog shit and peanuts) is a great map. ztndm3 has no real tournament history behind it.

ggs

I see that some people criticise ztndm3 as a duel map. I can't say I agree with them...
The main concern seems to be the way the MH and RA can be controlled by one player, resulting in 200/200 vs 150/100 battles. In my view the same can be said about dm6... A good player can easily control both RA and MH resulting in even more "unfair" battles... As we all know, matches on dm6 seldom gets one-sided if the players are equally skilled.
I think duelmania shows that ztndm3, like dm6, is lockable, but produces tight and exciting matches when the players are on the same level of skill.

Some people compare the lockability "problem" (feature?) of ztndm3 to the CS problem of dm2. This is in my view plain wrong! On dm2, players can ride their fragile lead by hiding, fleaing, and generally avoid battles. The man needing the frags control the map, but the map disfavours the man in control! On ztndm3 the way to ride your lead is to time the vital items, and in doing so come better prepared for the inevitable battles! In other words, to hold your lead on ztndm3, you have to be a man and take control of the map, because ztndm3, unlike dm2, favours the man in control!

uh, how did i get anything "wrong" while stating my opinion? and enumerating my big 3 wasn't even the point of the post.

"The main concern seems to be the way the MH and RA can be controlled by one player, resulting in 200/200 vs 150/100 battles. In my view the same can be said about dm6... A good player can easily control both RA and MH resulting in even more "unfair" battles... As we all know, matches on dm6 seldom gets one-sided if the players are equally skilled."

omg this is so right.. ;) tried to say the same but I didn?t know how to say it B<<<<

Hagge: I'm suprised!

My premises(short version):
dm6 is good(for duels)
dm2 is bad(for duels)
ztndm3 == dm6
ztndm3 != dm2

(obvious) conclusion:
ztndm3 is good(for duels)

...and you agree(?!?)

If this was your point, then saying "tried to say the same but I didn?t know how to say it B<<<<" must be the understatement of the year! :)

When u say DM2 stinks for duels, plz (again) watch the Lakermann - Kane demo!

Kane displays how campers should be dealt with on DM2, even tho he loses with one frag :)

A good point there is made comparing ztndm3 and dm2, about the need to control the map. E.g. on dm2 players can just wait inside YA-tele box until the enemy comes and then run away, that's hardly controlling the map, it's being stationary in a corner.

ztndm3 has SUPERB connectivity (best of any map imo) and so you can't really afford to let your opponent tool up; even if you hide, once he finds you it's not always easy to escape.

Anyway, I'm not even sure if it's good for all maps to play the same "balanced" fashion. It's nice to have some maps where if a player really plays well and controls the map then they get heavily rewarded. Kinda like dm4 with quad in the old days, people just couldnt take getting owned so it was got rid of. Still fun to play though imo.

well, its very hard to break out of ztndm3 maplock. a good player can easily deny the other player ra 'n lg (and there are just two cellpacks on the map = gg).

it's interesting that a lot of comments here comes from people who actuallly (almost) do not play duels at all.

"fat vs harl wasnt shit, i dont think either player was playing seriously there"

Are you nuts? That was QW CPL for $3,000 (I think.) Of course they were playing seriously, especially Fat with the $$$ involved.

Anyway this is my last word on dm2. I don't actually mind 'CS' if CS means slow tactical play. But dm2 is just getting to be a big joke. There's no clever tactics involved in running off to RA/mega room and spamming, it's just ridiculous.

QW duelling has stayed alive because on dm4 in Europe and dm6 in North America, people have carried on discovering new tactics and ways to play these maps. They've had enough depth to keep people playing them for 7 years. If we'd just had dm2, instead of dm4 and dm6, QW duelling would have died out a long, long time ago.

If the players really want to win, it's guaranteed that the game will come down to the same old situation of the guy with a lead CS-ing in RA/mega and the other guy trying to flush him out. You might as well play duels on dm3. And it's not the fault of the players for being lame - it's the fault of the map because it rewards that type of play.

Oh and as for the Aussies being really cool and attacking on dm2 and only the Euros being lame, who exactly was running straight to RA/mega as soon as he had a lead @ TGI? :)

*cough* Reload *cough*.

is it only me that truly hates dm4... i mean the map has so redicilous bad structure for 1on1... its only fun cause its been played so much... but i mean if u look at the spawns for example.. it is ONE singe good spawn.. so it always ends up with lots of just pure spawnfrags... and even when u get the ra spawn it isnt fun to play from there... to get out between all the spam.. and lets not talk about mega.. wtf is that?? u are supposed to walk out thru the ONLY way there is to take which is so tiny that the quake guy barely fit there.. when X grenades is lying there along with some rockets in the face... and then walk on a thin little bridge over lava where the opponent stands on a big plataue and can just spam down at u.. and its really hard to hit him.. and i mean wherever u are gonna go out the opponent knows u are there which doesnt really make it easier.. compare dm4 with aerowalk!.. ztndm3 is alot better also.. u can do alot of things on ztndm3 when the opponent has control

#39
whimp - your're the man !
the demo you are talking about is the best example that even when sb's cs'ing on dm2 you can still kick his ass
and btw kane was a bit unlucky B<<<

razor you are by no means alone \o/

dm4 is the most cs-map of the five duelmania maps, but only a handful of people can admit that.. the reason might be that the games look really fast paced and aggressive, when in reality most frags are a result of cornerspamming etc..... yea yea some people think they are "ELITE PREDICTION SHOTS WHICH NEED ALOT OF SKILLZZZZ", bullshit, everyone knows that on dm4, you know where your opponent is the whole time.

and often the difference between winning and losing is how long you care to run away before giving the spawnfrag... boooooring

on a final note: yes, i lose almost all my games on dm4 by a lot

finally i see that people start to realize that dm4 sux :<<

nah bullshit razor, there's more than ONE good spawn if you play the map right, if you get your opponent out of position there are a lot more good spawns :)

and about dm2...i dont really know my opinion there :) i mean, i hate playing the CS games, but i just LOVE watching them if it's the decider map cause it's always so exciting due to the cs played on it :) always close scores..

and then ztndm3! i dont think you can compare the RA-MH placing on ztndm3 with dm6, cause they are not as close to eachother on dm6? :) you have to walk quite a distance to get to it on dm6, and you are much easier to hit when you go to it (and also when you go back to ra again:)

personally i like playing dm4,aero (and dm6 cause there has to be a 3rd in "TB3"), but for tournaments (spectating it) i still like dm2,dm4,dm6 best, because dm2 is always so damn exciting :)

leaving for holiday now! \\oo/// bye :)

replace the dm4 with povdmm4 :f

Rev: fat had a 6 digit income from q3 by then (hell, I think he was talking about getting a fucking agent....) so he didnt give a fuck about some paltry 3k pocket change, and harl had no illusions about winning that tournament, let alone beating fat.

DM2 is an awesome map and has proven itself as such over the years. It is also CS friendly. Given that, it's *still* an awesome map. An excellent example is the recently played duelmania3 matchup between ParadokS and -insane- -- insane (on his home map -- DM2) was in the lead, decided to CS, and para beautifully infiltrated RA/MH and won the game. This infiltration was, for me, the highlight of both dm6 and dm2 games that they played.

About TGI, all I gotta say is Timber vs Reload on DM2 :o

xamp: this is a nice joke.

fifi's last line is a clue :)

To poster #35 (the smiley face): It's completely ridiculous to compare how easily one can control RA+MH on ztndm3 to dm6.. Much harder to do on dm6. I think it's the most balanced map.. Love it. Aerowalk is really good for duels too.. Wouldn't know what my opinion would be on the third map, but it definitely wouldn't be dm2.

Yo! (I'm an Aussie!)

We've been generally ignoring DM6 as much as possible... Indeed Aero is great... and I love ZTNDM3... looking forward to watching some demos of how you EU Peeps play the map...

One map you guys have not mentioned which really should be is SpineV2... an awesome map that is fast paced and manouverable.. it's size is conducive to fast paced action but does allow for those on the back foot to re-group if they are smart...

Good Duel Maps (Custom)
Aerowalk
ZTNDM3
SPINEV2
MESSY (a real thinkers map)

Food for thought.. I only wish us guys in AU could ping okay to some servers to join in Duelmania...

We'd give ya's a hiding on Aero and ZTN ;-)